DIRECT from The Big Easy, it's The Cocktail Guru Season Finale!

# AI Transcript: Finale 

Jonathan:
Hey everyone, Jonathan and Jeffrey, The Cocktail Guru Show. We are shooting the season finale of season four live here at Cafe Amelie in New Orleans. Live and in color. Live and in color. In glorious New Orleans. This is amazing. We have some terrific guests. We've got a cocktail commentary, a tipple time, everything. Yeah, and we've got food to boot. Terrific food, drink. I think you guys will be pleased. Cheers. Cheers. We are so excited to be here because we have some amazing guests this year, including Kyle McHugh, Laura Cullen, Absinthe of Vermouth, Ben Jones, Alejandro Coronado, returning guest Jaime Salas, and celebrity guests Cheech and Chong. The theme this year was Evolve, and you could really feel that spirit in every seminar, tasting, and conversation. But Tales isn't just about learning. It's about connection. It's about those unforgettable nights, like the William Grant party, which I had the honor of attending with Dad.

Jeffrey:
Yes, you did. We had a great evening together, surrounded by old friends and new. Reminded me why this community means so much to me.

Jonathan:
Tails is also about honoring those who paved the way, right dad?

Jeffrey:
Right, John. This year I put together a panel with Julie Reiner, Charles Baum, and Dale DeGroff on Charlie's father, Joe Baum. This seminar was a reminder of how one visionary reshaped hospitality. The Four Seasons, Windows on the World, and the Rainbow Room were all Baum's genius, and they proved that food and drink could be theater, storytelling, and memory.

Jonathan:
Coming up, Dad and I will be joined by Kyle McHugh from Proof Media and Laura Cullen to talk about bullet whiskey and about how brands, bars, and bartenders are evolving today. This episode of the Cocktail Guru Show is brought to you in part by Bullitt Whiskey, the frontier spirit. Bold, distinctive, and built for those who push boundaries, Bullitt has long been a favorite behind the bar and on the shelf. Whether you're mixing up a classic old-fashioned or experimenting with something new, Bullitt's high-rye recipe brings that unmistakable spice and character. Raise a glass to Bullitt, a whiskey that evolves right along with our industry. Well, we've run into some terrific guests for The Cocktail Guru Show here in New Orleans. How can we not? Isn't this amazing?

Jeffrey:
We're in New Orleans. We run into fantastic people every time we're down here.

Jonathan:
Kyle McHugh, Laura Cullen, welcome to The Cocktail Guru Show.

Jeffrey:
Thank you. Welcome, Laura and Kyle. Thank you. Pleasure.

Jonathan:
We're here, we want to talk about Bullet. It's one of our absolute favorite whiskeys. You've brought a few different expressions here, but first of all, just wanted to see, you know, what is your, what has your Tails New Orleans experience been thus far?

Kyle:
Thus far, got in kind of early in the week. We have a few different activations going on. So yeah, we did a tasting room yesterday. We had quite a few people coming through there. We got to do kind of an old fashioned bar as well as neat tasting with all our expressions and things like that. and then got to kind of go see everybody a little bit after that and then Kind of dabbling and going and checking out different events, but we have a double dealer event this this afternoon.

Jonathan:
Oh, yeah Boy, I could go for an old-fashioned bullet rye Yeah, we had a we had a night last night dad didn't we?

Jeffrey:
You can say that. Yes, you had a longer night than I did. I kind of cut out after an hour, an hour and a half.

Jonathan:
You did, you left.

Jeffrey:
I did, but that's because I made three rounds of the venue.

Jonathan:
And that was enough for you. I got caught. I got caught up. And you know how it is when you're at things, you say you're going to stay there for half an hour or at most an hour. But if you get caught up, if you start meeting people, it's like Laura, Laura Cullen. It's always great to see. And you're not a stranger to the cocktail guru show.

Laura:
I am not.

Jonathan:
Last time we saw you.

Laura:
This is my second appearance.

Jonathan:
It sure is.

Laura:
Last time I saw you I was at WSWA with the Wonderful and talented Christine Wiseman and Tiffany Berrier.

Jonathan:
Legends. Good company to keep.

Jeffrey:
Oh, that was some fantastic barstool interview.

Jonathan:
Indeed. That's exactly what it was. That was great. And what are you doing here at Tails and what is sort of your relationship with Bullet and your company, your brand?

Laura:
Yeah, so I'm working with an agency now that's called ARCT and we specialize in helping brands build themselves in the on-premise. Bullet is a brand that's been near and dear to my heart since I owned my bar in the early 2000s. And it is the bartender's bourbon. So when it comes to on-premise, Bullet is really synonymous with that. So I'm just here supporting Kyle, who does amazing work. Trying to get a free sample of American Single Malt, really.

Jonathan:
Free samples are always nice.

Laura:
Will work for booze.

Jonathan:
Can we try, Kyle, can we try something? Absolutely. And then I want to talk about, as we're trying it, the product itself, obviously, but how you also got into working on the brand side of things.

Kyle:
Absolutely.

Jonathan:
What should I start with?

Kyle:
I would say we can start with American Single Malt. Yeah, absolutely.

Jonathan:
Do it.

Kyle:
Yeah, so that's gonna be a 90 proof, 100% melted barley.

Jonathan:
It's sweating.

Kyle:
It is. Just like we all are. Me too. Yeah, it's a recycled bottle. So that's why you'll see the green hue to the to the bottle, which is nice. Yeah, it's gorgeous. Gorgeous packaging, which I've always loved about bullet. But it's tasty. It's kind of a nice good cross between almost like a highland scotch and an American bourbon finish.

Jeffrey:
Wait a minute. Really?

Kyle:
Oh yeah. So it's a great crossbreed. Like if you're getting into scotch or you're getting into American bourbon, this is a great kind of midway point. Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_13:
Lovely nose.

Kyle:
Yeah.

Jonathan:
So Kyle, you, um, what is your background? You started in the, in the bar world.

Kyle:
I did.

Jonathan:
And then made that transition to, to the brand world.

Kyle:
I did. Yeah. So I was a bartender, um, slash bar director and all things bar side for about 13, 14 years. And then, um, I started doing kind of, uh, offsite events and consulting and stuff like that. And then I became friends with some folks who were either already ambassadors or doing events in my area with, um, the audio actually. And I was doing cocktail competitions as well. And that's where I met Mr. Steve Beal, who was a judge for a Bullet competition. And he took a liking to the cocktail I did. And we became friends. And he became a mentor over the years. And then when I joined the Masters of Whiskey, one of my first interactions was with this young lady over here. She was working for the distributor at the time. And she was the glue that kept the bartenders and the distributors you know, she filled that gap as far as like, you know, she took the stiffness and the, she understood it. She came from our side of the world and she really did find that, I always like to say meet cute, you know what I mean? And just kind of squashed any kind of elements of people thinking that the distributor is like not your friend or anything like that, you know what I mean? Like it was a very good way. to kind of integrate into bars and stuff like that. Right.

Laura:
I like to call it cocktails over contention. Yeah.

Jonathan:
Right. Because we think of the brand folks and the distributors as like the suits. Yeah. Right. But both of you coming from the bar side of things. Yeah. Kind of help with that.

Kyle:
And now I call her my street cred wherever I go. That's why she's here.

Jeffrey:
Yeah. I see that. This is not what I expected.

Jonathan:
No.

Jeffrey:
What did you expect? Well, this is so smooth. Yeah. Yeah. So and even in the fit, even sweet in the thing, it's a little bit like I thought it would be a little harsher. It's not harsh at all. Very, very, very, very nice. And so it's the sweetness that surprised me.

Jonathan:
And it's although it's even although it's just a little sip, I'd like to move on to the next product. And Laura, your background is in bars and you also made that transition from back of the house or front of the house, back and front of the house to brand work. How was that for you? What is, what was the main, um, what am I going to say? What is the main, uh, sticking point when it came to that transition for you? Was it, was it a challenge? Was it easy? Did it come naturally?

Laura:
It was a huge challenge because I basically moved to a foreign country where I did not speak the language. but was not expecting it to be so. So it's as if I went to another country where I thought we spoke the same language, and all of a sudden, I didn't understand anything anybody was saying, nor did they understand me. And that was a difficult transition. But like with anything, if you like to travel, we all acclimate. And it ended up being one of the most rewarding times of my life.

Kyle:
Cool. What is this? Please Kyle.

Jeffrey:
It's Bottled and Bond. Yes, yes.

Kyle:
So finally, after all the different expressions we've had, we came out with our Bottled and Bond. So that's going to be the 50% MBV. It's our original mash bill. which is a two-thirds corn, one-third rye. There's 4% malted barley in there. But it's delightful. I mean, it's smooth all the way through, yeah.

Jeffrey:
It does have a little more aging to it in the bottle.

Kyle:
So we don't put an age. This was done in spring of 2017, and delightfully so. It is the first juice that has come off our Shelbyville still.

Jonathan:
So that's kind of a nice little... It has this sort of crisp apple... Oh yeah.

Jeffrey:
I'm getting butterscotch. Apple butterscotch. Oh yeah. That's what I'm getting, yeah.

Jonathan:
I taste that malted barley in there.

Kyle:
Oh, from the American single, yeah. Oh, in the finish of this one, yes.

Jeffrey:
Oh, that is smooth, that's really smooth.

Kyle:
For 100 proof, absolutely.

Jeffrey:
And there's also, I don't know if that's coming from barrels or what, a little smokiness.

Kyle:
There is smokiness, yeah, I get a little bit of like almost a light mint too sometimes.

Laura:
It's just an extraordinary expression and really gives Bullet that sense of place. Because when you think of all of the people out in Shelbyville that helped make this happen and get this into a bottle and get it out to you, I was fortunate enough to be in Shelbyville at the time that this was coming out. And the amount of pride that we all have around this product is immeasurable. And it shows in the liquid, for sure.

Jonathan:
I think it's extraordinary. I do too.

Jeffrey:
This is one of my new favorites.

Jonathan:
Well, I'm going to pour this out so that we can start the next one. And with the next taste, we will talk about what we're tasting, but I'd like to go back and forth between Kyle and Laura here and talk about new generations of bartenders, and we talked about this when Dad did a seminar with Julie Reiner and Dale DeGroff and Charlie Baum, who's the son of Joe Baum, whom some people might know.

Jeffrey:
The greatest restaurateur you've never heard of.

Jonathan:
And how history and education is so important in our field, in our world, and how not knocking any new generations of bartenders, but a lot of them kind of bypass the education, the history aspect. Laura, in your opinion, you know, what makes this sort of the background that people in our world should kind of take into account? What makes that important for the future of the bartenders? You know, like the education, the history.

Laura:
Yeah, I think I'm envious of the young bartenders coming up today because they have an extraordinary amount of access. So information is relatively easy to come by. And even reaching out to the people who you admire is not as difficult as it once was. So it once meant getting on a plane or getting in your car and going to the place where that person was. And now you have opportunities with the growth of things like Tales of the Cocktail and other festivals around the world. where you're able to meet some of these people and have conversations with them. I find the older generation to be extraordinarily generous with their intellectual property. And the younger generation just has a wealth of opportunity in front of them, which I think is really exciting. I do think that as an older generation, it is our Mission really to help put some guardrails on some of that information coming in and you know fundamentals are the basics and and everyone needs to know that encourage younger bartenders to slow down a little bit and to take it all in and to really spend some time honing their craft and It's really exciting though. When you see what's going on out in bars and restaurants, if you're going out, I am a big proponent of telling people that I think that people are drinking and people are going out and there's all this panic in the industry. But when you see the level of energy that's happening out in bars and restaurants now and some of the creativity and the poetic license that this younger generation is able to take, that's fully accepted because the consumer is also ready. for new cocktails and new experiences. I think it's extraordinarily exciting and I think the future is very bright.

Jonathan:
Yeah, cool. Kyle, before you answer the same question, what are we drinking now?

Kyle:
So this is our Bullet Rye 10 Year. This is also a recent release. It's kind of to balance out our portfolio. So we have our Bourbon 10 Year that's been out since 2014. And this one currently, it's our tried and true 95.5. So it's 95% rye and 5% malted barley. It's 91.2 proof, the same as our 10-year bourbon. And 10 years aged is the youngest whiskey in that bottle. So you get a little bit of 12 and 13.

Jeffrey:
And it's so good, so smooth.

Kyle:
Oh yeah.

Jeffrey:
It's very nice. Spicy, sweet and spicy. Yes.

Laura:
Just like me.

Jeffrey:
Yes, Laura. That's what I was thinking.

Jonathan:
And what about you, Kyle, what we were just chatting about?

Kyle:
Yeah, it's actually a topic that's near and dear to my heart as well. And I talk with Laura all the time about this is, I came up through the USBG and through bartending and community, and it was always nice. I had mentors along the way, and I feel like, like you said, some of the younger generation has seemed to skyrocket through that, I wouldn't say tenure, but through that system where you hear bar back to bar director overnight type things. It's not without a lack of passion, you know what I mean? So I think just giving them the assets and the opportunities to get that knowledge, to get those mentors and to provide them with that is huge because I wouldn't be anywhere I am today without all those mentors, without the USBG, without Brands actually showing an interest, you know, and the friends we have out here.

Jonathan:
So, you know paying that forward is Huge something that really hit me was when Julie at our seminar said many of this young generation They don't even know who Dale DeGroff is

Laura:
it's very important to preserve the stories. And I think it makes me sad that there are bartenders that mightn't know who Dale is because they're actually doing themselves a disservice by not revisiting those stories. At the same time, there are many other stories that we have to incorporate into this journey. And I think that, again, it's all of our responsibilities. I love that Julie articulated that, because it is all of our responsibilities to make people aware of the fact that there is, we owe a debt of gratitude to the people that come before us. And that doesn't mean that you can never do anything different, or you can't have different mentors, or you can't connect and click with different people in different ways. But I think to be aware of your history is very important.

Jeffrey:
But this is why I created this seminar, because Joe Baum, by himself as a single entity is responsible for Dale DeGroff's career.

Laura:
For sure. And Dale did not name himself King Cocktail, right? This was a resurgence in cocktails in America that he was very much the face of. And that's extraordinarily important, the fact that fresh juice is a given. We talk about fresh juice now with younger bartenders, and they're like, yeah, of course we use fresh juice. But I learned how to bartend with powdered mix. I learned how to bartend in the early 80s. It wasn't a thing.

Jeffrey:
But what most people don't know is that Joe Bowne was doing this in 1959, when he opened the Four Seasons restaurant. He was using only fresh ingredients for his food and for his drinks.

Laura:
And let's also be clear that there are many, many cultures that were also incorporating fresh ingredients into drinks. Many Caribbean cultures, many cultures down South. And when you think about the different variants. So I think that we need to also acknowledge the fact that a lot of this was going on.

Jeffrey:
Well, what were they doing in Cuba? They were using fresh ingredients for their cocktails.

Jonathan:
Well, this has been a lovely chat and I appreciate you guys coming here. Kyle, Laura.

Jeffrey:
Thanks so much.

Jonathan:
Thanks for having us. Cheers.

Jeffrey:
My glass is empty. I love it. Thank you.

Jonathan:
But your heart is full. Yes, always. And if you want to know more about the seminar that Dad did at Tales of the Cocktail all about Joe Baum, you can check out the YouTube channel. Dad, one of the things I love most about Tails is the educational programming. This is why I was so incredibly happy to sit in and watch your seminar about Joe. And then, of course, they had the Spirited Awards, which continue to recognize excellence across the globe. And the Catalyst Awards, celebrating female and non-binary pioneers. But Dad wasn't the only one to host an event at Tails. I also held my annual happy hour. It was amazing, and also my spirited dinner at Cafe Amelie. As always, I had cocktails to go with each of our five courses. This year our menu at Cafe Amelie featured some amazing Italian as well as New Orleans dishes, and we had some amazing entertainment as well. So that welcome drink was Maiori, and then the first course is Cento. And these are all aspects of Carnaval in Italy and different regions and what they do during Carnaval. So that's kind of the experience that we wanted to bring forth to you. So the first course, Cento, the cocktail has Galliano, L'Aperitivo, Riuniti, Lambrusco, Berenieger Honey Liqueur, Perfect Puree Camu Camu, and a cracker with honey and Parmigiano Reggiano. And that's paired with a small grilled plum and pancetta salad that's coming around, as well as my dad's favorite, and it was all upon his request, Cafe Amelie's famous shrimp and grits.

Jeffrey:
Up next, we'll be chatting with Absinthe Vermouth from Absinthe's Bottled Spirits about her unique journey, the history of Absinthe, and why innovation still has a place in tradition.

Jonathan:
We have another wonderful guest for this podcast episode live from New Orleans.

Jeffrey:
This is New Orleans Yeah, it is. So what better guest to have than someone who is involved in the distillation of that magic spirit called absinthe.

Jonathan:
That's right, the green fairy. The green fairy. We have our amazing absinthe distiller friend, Absinthea. Welcome to the Cocktail Guru Show.

Absinthia:
Thank you very much. Great to be here.

Jonathan:
We've been trying to coordinate and connect since, well, over a year. I think we were supposed to do something last year, it tells. But we're so glad that you're here. And we want to know a little bit about you and the story of your love for absinthe as a spirit.

Absinthia:
Yeah, well, thank you for welcoming me here this year. I'm healthy, as I was not during Tales last year. So good to be able to enjoy everything. I first came across Absinthe at a party after my second Burning Man in San Francisco.

Jonathan:
Of course you did. Of course you do.

Absinthia:
There was this beautiful crystal bowl and cups and people were serving themselves and I heard the word absinthe and I didn't really know what it was and I was a little terrified and I probably circled it about six or seven times before I got my nerve up and had a drink. And then I learned about it. It was delicious. It probably wasn't what we would consider absinthe today because You know, in the 90s, nobody really quite understood what absinthe was yet. We were sort of going off of Barnaby Conrad's book about absinthe, which was wonderful at the time and a great resource. But now we know a lot more of the history of absinthe. But I was very intrigued. And as an art historian, that's what really pulled me down the rabbit hole of absinthe. And then I started making it, and my friends started calling me Absinthia.

Jonathan:
Wow. So when did you start making it yourself? How did that come about?

Absinthia:
Just at home? Yeah, just at home. My friend from that party gave me the recipe. It was terrible. It was ever clear and wormwood tinctures from some place in the mission and food coloring, mostly yellow food coloring and a couple drops of blue. So we did what we could. I wouldn't call it absent now, but at the time, who knew? And I the very first night.

Jeffrey:
I served it was actually April Fool's Day 1997 Wow and my friends call me up Cynthia as a joke and it's stuck Wow yeah Amazing I love the drink I've been Studying it and reading about it and tasting it since I moved to Paris And how did you discover it? I discovered it in bars in Paris many moons ago.

Absinthia:
The actual absinthe, not pastis?

Jeffrey:
Nope. I drank a lot of pastis, too, but actual absinthe, which I think was being produced legally in France by Pernod Ricard.

Absinthia:
At the time, probably without the Wormwood.

Jeffrey:
Well, there was product made without Wormwood, but then there were others that I think did contain Wormwood, but mostly the one without Wormwood.

Jonathan:
In the States, it was in 2005.

Jeffrey:
Well, in the States, there was no Wormwood at all.

Jonathan:
March 5, 2007.

None:
2007.

Absinthia:
Yes. But I will tell you the crazy part about my story is that studying it, I saw a beautiful poster of Wormwood with the original spelling of my last name at the bottom of the poster.

Jonathan:
Which is?

Absinthia:
Vermouth.

Jonathan:
Your actual last name.

Absinthia:
On my birth certificate.

Jonathan:
Vermouth. V-E-R-M-U-T-H. Right.

Absinthia:
Well, it was originally W-E-R-M-O maybe U-T-H. Now it's V-E-R-M-U-T.

Jonathan:
Yeah. Wow.

Absinthia:
Yeah.

Jonathan:
That's kismet. It is. It is.

Absinthia:
It's fate.

Jonathan:
Oh my goodness. So you're destined to, you know.

Absinthia:
It must have been. It's in the stars. It must have been.

Jonathan:
With the fairies. And what about today? What does your absinthe world look like?

Absinthia:
Well, I moved to New Orleans a year ago, a week before Tails. Like we said, then I got really sick. And then I moved into my apartment uptown, which I love. And then one day, I was out pounding the pavement and trying to get placements and walked into Pirate's Alley Cafe and asked Tony if he would pick up my absinthe and told him that I lived here. And he said, do you want a bartending job? And I was like, well, will you pick up my absinthe? So now I actually serve my absinthe at Pirate's Alley Cafe a couple nights a week and get to share it with people from all over the world.

Jonathan:
Can you tell us a little bit about your absinthe specifically and maybe what makes it special?

Absinthia:
Yeah, yeah. So I go back to the pre-phylloxera era recipes from the Swiss women who were making it as medicine in Switzerland. in the 1700s. And they were using grapes, of course, and they were distilling it with a trinity of herbs. And then the men came along and accused them of witchcraft and stole the recipe. And then they decided they didn't want to pay Swiss taxes, so they moved it to France and pissed off the wine industry, and the rest is history. So that is the original recipe that I use, which is very, very traditional. The neutral grape spirits with the wormwood, the fennel seed, the anise seed, a little bit of coriander, and then the herbs to color it green. I also have three other absinthes. I have a barrel-aged absinthe. which is in X-ray oak barrels as a nod to the Sazerac. That is, don't tell my other absinthe, but actually one of my favorites. It's like an oaky Chardonnay absinthe. I have a blue absinthe with butterfly pea flower, and then I have the Blanche.

Jeffrey:
And where are these produced?

Absinthia:
Well, I am seeking a new partner to distill with.

Jonathan:
Oh, well, there you go. Yes, yes.

Absinthia:
So maybe there's someone out there who... Yeah, I would love to do it here in New Orleans. Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan:
That would be cool.

Absinthia:
So what I typically look for when I partner with a distiller is someone who makes very good gin. If they know how to make gin, I can teach them how to make absinthe.

Jonathan:
Right. Because they're experts in botanicals.

Absinthia:
Exactly. They're very similar. When people ask me, what is absinthe like? I always say gin, because it's distilled with botanicals. And that's the thing that people understand.

Jonathan:
And what is your preferred serve for absinthe? How are we using it? Ice cold water. Just ice cold water? Just ice cold water.

Absinthia:
It's so good. Sazerac, of course. I actually have over 100 absinthe cocktail recipes on my website, absinthea.com, all sorted by base alcohol. So if you want absinthe and champagne, you pick champagne. If you want absinthe and rye, you pick rye. I started collecting absinthe cocktail recipes about 15 years ago.

Jeffrey:
How about just absinthe over ice?

Absinthia:
You know, I love that, and I've gotten in trouble with the absinthe community. People have messaged me saying, you can't tell people that because it's not traditional. And I said, you know what? If they had ice at bars in France in the 1800s, they would have used it. Yes, they would have, but they didn't. Too expensive.

Jonathan:
Man, and what are you doing? Are you doing anything with the brands here at Tales, with the brand at Tales of the Cocktail?

Absinthia:
I am. I have a couple of parties with the Bard Tenders, which is another podcast. And then the big party is Thursday night after the Spirited Awards at Tales of the Cocktail. From 1030 till midnight, we have an accordion player playing French music.

Jonathan:
Oh, fun.

Absinthia:
We have absinthe cocktails. I've got t-shirts for the first 50 people and a whole bunch of little green fairies running around.

Jonathan:
I think we're going to try to make it because that's after our dinner. But that's great. I'm so glad that we were able to catch up, Cynthia, and we appreciate you taking the time and for sharing your wealth of knowledge on Absinthe and your products. My pleasure.

Absinthia:
So happy to be here.

Jeffrey:
And we're especially happy that you're in good health.

Absinthia:
Thank you. It was really hard to miss all of my events and all of Taylor's last year. I know. I know. Yeah. Yeah. Now I can, you know, just go back to my own bed with my dogs and my house. It's really nice to be a local. It's a great town.

Jonathan:
Yeah, it is a great town, isn't it? Yes, it is. All right. Well, thank you so much for joining us.

Absinthia:
My pleasure. Thank you, guys.

Jonathan:
Cheers. Thank you.

Absinthia:
Cheers.

Jeffrey:
This segment is sponsored by Spirit Bomb Spirits, home to some of the world's most storied rums, including Rum Clément and Rum JM. From the sugarcane fields of Martinique, cocktail bars across the globe. Spiribam is dedicated to preserving tradition while sharing the beauty of aglico rum with today's drinkers. For those who believe a spirit should tell a story, Spiribam delivers a taste of heritage in every sip.

Announcer:
The Cocktail Guru presents Cocktail Commentary with Jeffrey Pogash. Sit back and enjoy the story of the Spiribam spirits.

Jeffrey:
When Royal Navy Admiral Edward Vernon gave his men a ration of rum mixed with water, lime, and sugar, little did he realize that he had unleashed a drink that would change the course of cocktail history. Known as a grog because Admiral Vernon wore a coat made of a waterproof material called grogrum, adding lime helped to prevent scurvy, a common 17th and 18th century disease caused by a vitamin C deficiency. Over the centuries, rum became the drink of choice for pirates, of course, and for others, and it was produced in hundreds of countries around the world using the juice of sugar cane or molasses. Production methods can vary, and most countries do not have strict laws regulating that production. But leave it to the French, who were the first to create strict wine laws called Appellations Contrôlées. The Caribbean has been a hotbed of rum production for centuries, and the island of Martinique, a French department, produces some of the best. And now it's time for the rest of the story. Labeled Rum Vieux Agricole, a legal designation, Rum JM has a unique expression called terroir volcanique, made using a double char process for the oak barrels used to age it. Oak barrels, of course, contribute a great deal to the flavor of the rum, as does the yeast, which is essential for fermentation. The designation terroir volcanique, I love that name, don't you, indicates the soil type. Volcanic, of course. Mount Pele is the volcano overlooking the village of Macuba on the island of Martinique. The French term terroir indicates the soil and the general environment or climate in which the sugarcane grows. The flavors in this rum are explosive indeed. orange peel, toasted almond, vanilla, and a touch of smoke from the charred barrels. Spice and brûlée tropical fruit add another layer of complexity to this yummy three-year-old rum that is the perfect spirit for your next cocktail. Remember, since this is rum agricole, it is made from pure sugarcane juice, not molasses, and adheres to the strict production methods that must be followed to obtain the AOC rum agricole designation. Well, now comes the fun part. I have a beautiful agricole fashion right here, ready for tasting, comprised of Rum JM, Terroir Volcanique, Clément Bananacan Liqueur, and a truly delicious Cacao Forastero Bitters from Bitters JM. Add an ice cube and you have a delicious Rum JM cocktail. Cheers. And now you know the rest of the story, but coming up, we have an interview with Ben Jones, who will teach you much more about Rum JM. Cheers. That is so good.

Jonathan:
Now we had the chance to sit down with Ben Jones from Spear Bam Spears, the man behind some of the most celebrated rums from the Caribbean. We'll talk about heritage, family, and how rum continues to define culture around the world. Mr. Ben Jones.

Ben:
Mr. Pogash. Mr. Pogash. Ben Jones, we've been after you for a long time. And you guys are crowding me from each side.

Jonathan:
We're ganging up. So Ben and I have known each other for a while, since my New York days. And you live in Rhode Island. Yes, sir. Not too, too far from where I am.

Ben:
I think I moved up about a year ahead of you. That's right. And then you called me, and you're like, is this really possible?

Alex:
Yes.

Ben:
Can we be in the spirits world and not be in New York? Live in remote places.

Jonathan:
And you said yes. You said yes.

Ben:
I said like get rid of that city stress come up here and I'm you know We work hard and and when it's time to unplug and go to the flip-flops and get it Yeah, so you're responsible for Jonathan's move to Massachusetts.

Jeffrey:
Well, I think his wife had more to do it But but that gave me confidence yes for sure very important that was very important I'm

Jonathan:
And you're with Spear Bam. It is your company. You are of the Clement family of amazing rums from Martinique. Can you tell us a little bit about the background of the family and your involvement?

Ben:
Yeah, so I was born and raised in the United States, but my mother's French, from Martinique. I'm an only child, raised by a single mother, with really no family roots here. So all of my childhood growing up, it was a lot of going back to see family in Paris, because her brother, my uncle, and my cousins were there, or going to Martinique to visit our family there. And all of those trips always involved bringing rum back for our own house, and we were always very proud. My mother was also kind of a socialite, so people would come over and it was always a thing after dinner. We have the Creole Shrub. And of course, you know, we have the orange, the liqueur. And so, you know, even I remember when I was younger, you know, any sort of special treat was, you know, Creole shrub over my vanilla ice cream. Yeah, dessert, you know, something simple like that. But anyway, so all of these trips, you know, involved bringing back some rum and or when people came to visit us, they would bring some and And then, you know, years later, I actually stumbled into the beverage alcohol industry, not specifically with rum. But as I, you know, very early on, then I asked the question, well, why don't we have Rum Climont in the United States? And so there was, of course, an obvious solution on how to fix that. And we started like that. So my great uncle, Omer Climont, is the founder of Rum Climont. It started in 1887. He's quite a pioneer not really because Because of his rum enthusiasm, but he was really a politician and he was very influential locally in Martinique In the transition of the local sugar economy as the sugar economy failed, you know with his influence He was really able to bend together small producers farmers to to to replace that lost sugar economy with another sugar business making rum from pure sugarcane juice. And I don't know if we have all this podcast to go through all of that, but that's how it really started. And now there's another family in Martinique that owns Klimmel and Jam. So that's the connection, same owner, but the passion is always really to really build and continue to sustain and bring the category to life. And really having the category to life, you need to have separate diverse brands and whatnot. So the spirit has always been to keep the two brands independent because they really are very, very different. I mean, they're as different as my thumbprint and yours.

Jeffrey:
But I do want to preface all of this by saying this is not just your run-of-the-mill rum. Not all rums are the same. This is rum agricole. Forgive my accent, but I do speak French. My wife is French, Jonathan's mother. And Rum Agricole is different from all the other rums produced anywhere in the world, and it's really, from what I can see, the only one that has such strict regulations pertaining to it, because it's part of the French AOC, Appellation d'Origine Contrôlée, system of wine and spirit production, which means every step of the way is regulated by law. So all Rhum Agricole has to be produced with sugar cane juice.

Jonathan:
Pure sugar cane juice. Not molasses. The word Rhum Agricole literally from the ground. Agricultural.

Ben:
I couldn't say any better than that. I'll take you on tour. He is for hire. You can hire him to go on tour. But yeah, no, that's exactly right. And it gets even be more strict than that because it's specific parcels of land. No, it's not just all over the island. There's specific parcels of land, you know, just like in the wine regions. Specific sugarcane varietals, season for when you can harvest the sugarcane and distill, fermentation, distillation styles, even the type of still that we use, and then aging and age statements and whatnot. Yeah, you're right. The AOC is a GI and probably, you know, the most regulated and most strict, for sure, in the rum, as well as, you know, in really most spirits, right? I'm going to start pouring as you talk.

Jeffrey:
And for those people who don't know, France was the first country in the world to produce a legal system for wine production. Really, the first in the world.

Ben:
And so, yeah, and then rum alcohol is very unique and different when, you know, people are not You know they might be new to rum or admit what they know about rum here in the United States You know is it's not what we think of rum on the whole as far as the category is far more diverse than what most people are familiar with but when they find You know, this is rum jam, Termo Volcanique. And it's, you know, you'll find that like this and all the rums in the category are very dry, you know, not sweet, not sugary. And that's not because they're de-silver molasses, but like some, you know, there's, I think there's a plethora, a variety of different styles of rum. whether you're adding sugar or not, or what have you, or distilling from molasses. But here, because it's raw microchip from sugar cane juice, you know, I think most notably you'll pick up a very, you know, strong grassy note component, terroir-driven flavors, you know, earthy, beany, legume-y.

Jonathan:
And the distillery is very special. The land is very special. I had the pleasure of going to Martinique with you. That was about 10 years ago? It was a while ago. It was a while ago. And Megan, my wife, came as well. So that was very nice to have her there. And so she experienced the sugarcane fields and, you know, riding in the tractor and out in the fields and then going to the distillery. And I mean, it was it was what an experience. And the land is beautiful. It's it's rugged. It's wild. You know, you wouldn't necessarily expect it. But yeah, it was an interesting experience for sure.

Jeffrey:
Yeah, it sounds like my experiences in the Dominican Republic. Very similar. Oh, I love that. I love that. You can tell when you're drinking rum, as opposed to any other type of rum.

Jonathan:
And the signature cocktail is a tea punch, which flows like tea punch and Martinique. And it's got the specifications similar to many other rum sugarcane cocktails, right? It's the sugar, the lime, and the rum. That's it. But generally speaking, I think the tea punch is served room temperature or very little ice or depends.

Ben:
Because each one prepares their own death. I would say that, you know, in the older generations, people drank at room temperature because, you know, first of all, you didn't always have access to ice going back, you know, decades ago, generations ago. But I would say more importantly, the local Martinican population doesn't like to dilute their rum. And you'll find even they don't like to even dilute it with the sugar or lime. They just want the rum.

Jeffrey:
I'm a proponent of drinking almost everything with a nice ice cube. I would love to. I love it on its own, but I would also love it with an ice cube.

Ben:
But I'll tell you that I'll tell you that you're right with having the water into it. We'll really start to open it up. It's amazing, but when you are in this type of weather here, like we're in New Orleans, 90 degrees, 90% humidity, there's nothing more thirst quenching than ambient temperature, 100 proof, rum, agar, lime and sugar, tea punch. It really brings you down to balance. It does.

Jonathan:
And I want to move on to these other products. So I'm going to pour the Banacan. And maybe as I'm pouring, you can talk about the very interesting relationship between sugarcane and banana.

Jeffrey:
Yes, but I also want to mention this is terroir volcanique. And the fields of sugar cane are at the base of the volcano or close to the volcano itself, which inhabits the island.

Ben:
The fields, we have our own estate. And so Rum Jam, the distillery, is literally at the foot of the volcano. And our sugar cane is basically growing just pretty much almost at sea level all the way up to about a little over 400 meters in elevation. So you have a very you know, a diverse sort of microclimactic terroir.

Jeffrey:
And there's a wonderful earthiness and a slight smokiness to this as well.

Jonathan:
But what's interesting too is if you really hone in on the flavor profile of the rum jams, you will start to get a little bit of banana in there. And I learned, which was very interesting when I was there, that Correct me if I'm wrong, the fields get rotated with banana trees one year, or for several years, then sugarcane the next.

Ben:
So you actually get... It's about every four years or so.

Jonathan:
Every four years. So you get banana, literal banana flavor from what was planted there before.

Ben:
Yeah, we're doing that because we are replacing the lost nitrogen and phosphorus that's being eaten and stripped away by the sugarcane to do the crop rotation. But the sugarcane and the bananas will be growing in parcels side by side, so you're also getting You can really see, like, you know, there's adjacent floor and fauna that kind of, like, you know, can get into that.

Jonathan:
And this is one of the newer products, is that right?

Ben:
Yes, no, this is a, we launched it basically at the beginning of this year. This is our Klimo Banakan. This has been a project in the works for quite a while, simply because You know, we have a rum distillery. We have sugar cane. We have bananas. Now, we are growing bananas and shipping them off to the French supermarkets. You know, it's a heavy, laborious, labor-intensive process, bananas. And part of that process is that, you know, as they're harvested and brought in for processing and packaging, there is, you know, a team of people by hand doing quality control. And there's everything done possible to protect the bananas as they are maturing. But when they come in, you can't send bananas with any sort of blemishes or bruising or whatnot. And so less or more, about 20% of what's coming in is put as waste, and it would go to compost or pig farmers or whatnot. I said, well, jeez, you know, we're making a coconut liqueur, we're making an orange liqueur, we're doing all these things, and so why can't we use our own fruit, you know, and to make a banana liqueur? So it's green, unripened bananas, like I said, all grown at the Clermont Estate. And you know, it's really cool infusion into the Fusion right into yeah to pure agro terrific for cocktails banana bananas banana daiquiris.

Jonathan:
Mm-hmm Really not and then just to kind of round out what we have here We have the seal jam, which is like a cane syrup or a simple syrup. Yeah Not so simple, but yeah, not so simple And then we have bitters, which are new. Is that right?

Ben:
Yeah, the bitters we don't really talk too much about because we don't make a lot of them. They are all very much inspired by the local Martican traditions.

Jeffrey:
How about some bitters in this? On your hand. Well, I'd like a shot in here, too.

Ben:
And thank you very much. So this is the cacao. So this is a chocolate bitters. So we have a small garden where we are growing a lot of the botanicals. The only thing we're not growing is the chocolate, which is wildly forged in the volcano in the rainforest. We also have a a pimo which is a very spicy kind of like a hellfire bitters where the feature ingredient is like basically the equivalent of a local scotch bonnet like habanero which in you know martinique they're not using like traditionally salt and pepper on their food there it's like a ramekin of salt and then you would cut this uh this would be on your on your table and You would cut that pepper and dab your food to get that savory heat. Anyway, so that's the featured sort of lead player in the spicy bitters. And then the next one is the floral.

Jonathan:
What are you doing?

Ben:
Smell it. The floral bitters is made with a little bit of the banana. Yes, but made with optimal.

Jonathan:
Yes, it's terrific with the bananakan, the cacao bitters and the bananakan. Delicious. That's wine. Okay. Thank you. Well, like dad said earlier, we've been wanting to have you on the show for quite some time. We're very thankful that this came about, that we're here in New Orleans together. We see you every year in New Orleans. It's been so long. You're a dear old friend. Not old, but you know what I mean. Old, young friend. We're old.

Jeffrey:
We're old as well. A young old friend.

Ben:
He's a little older. We started the New York USBG together and the Rhode Island USBG.

Jonathan:
That's true. That's true. We've been through a lot together. But this is great. Thank you so much for joining us on the Cocktail Guru Show. I appreciate it. Thank you for the invitation.

Jeffrey:
Mr. Ben Jones. Fantastic. Thanks, Ben. These are absolutely delicious. I love that combination of the bitters and the banana. That's good.

Jonathan:
Cheers.

Jeffrey:
Cheers.

Jonathan:
Tales is also global. Every year we see spirits and influences from all over the world come together in New Orleans. This year I was blown away by the presence of tequila and mezcal which continue to capture the imagination of bartenders everywhere.

Jeffrey:
To dive deeper, we sat down with Alejandro Coronado from Cuervo Tequila. and Jaime Seles from Proximo Spirits. Together, we talked about innovation in agave spirits, sustainability, and what it means to carry forward traditions that are centuries old.

Jonathan:
This portion of the podcast is made possible by Proximo Spirits, the team behind some of the most iconic brands in the world, from Cuervo Tequila to Grand Centenario, Bushmills Irish Whiskey, and so many more. When you see the Proximo name, you know you're raising a glass to something extraordinary. Well, we just keep running into some amazing friends and family, really, in the industry.

Jeffrey:
Yeah, and they all happen to be producers of fine spirits. What a coincidence.

Jonathan:
That's right. We have Jaime. We have Alex, who produces this tequila. He makes this tequila. And we're so thankful to have both of you here at Tails to present some of these beautiful Cuervo Tradicional products. Welcome.

Alex:
Hey, thanks very much for inviting me and thanks, Jaime, for sharing this time together.

Jaime:
Yeah, absolutely. And thank you guys for having us once again. It's great to see you.

Jonathan:
Yeah, absolutely. So Alex, we'd love to find out from you, the source, what makes Cuervo Tradicional so special compared to some of the other familial products.

Alex:
Yes, well as you know, Cuervo is the oldest tequila producer. We started in 1795 and Tradicional is the original recipe of our product. So it's produced at Rogeña in Tequila Jalisco through the artisanal way of doing tequila, no? Masonry ovens, I mean, slow cooking. We have our proprietary yeast and double distillation through copper pot stills. So it's, I mean, for me it's an honor to replicate this legacy and this tradition that the company has had for so many decades and years.

Jeffrey:
Yeah, it's a true traditional way of making tequila.

Jaime:
That's right. And I think I would add that, you know, when you think about Cuervo, you think margaritas, you think tequila, you think Mexico, the emblematic ambassador of Mexico. But I think oftentimes, you know, when you think of Cuervo specifically, you say, oh, Cuervo especial or Cuervo gold, which is the very expression that we use to popularize, let's say, the margarita back in the 50s. Right. And that's around the time it was created. However, this was the original tequila being used in the Margarita in the 30s. This is our homage to that 100% blue agave production that we started out with, right? Contrary to what people might think, because I've had people literally ask me, well, especial has been around since you started? I'm like, no. The mixto style tequila came much later. So it's that homage, and it's that sort of representation back to what we've done. And what Hopton turned to shape what we now today define as tequila, if you think about it. Because at one point, it was mezcal.

Jonathan:
All right, so we're going to try some of these beautiful expressions. I'm going to grab the Reposado. So can you just tell me a little bit about it as I'm pouring it?

Alex:
Sure. Reposado, again, is our original, traditional recipe in the production. And then it's mature in American oak. And we start with new barrels. Our philosophy is to have new barrels. Of course, we have first filled, second filled, and then we make blends. But we never start from, usually the industry starts with former bourbon barrels. So I think you could appreciate that the the smell and flavor of the cooked agave. I think we have mastered the distillation process, so bringing out the congineers that we want to show in the tequila and the casking process, we believe since we have very good barrels, good quality, good standards in our warehouses, you would always find consistency and It's one of my favorite tequilas, to be honest. Traditional reposado.

Jonathan:
It's really lovely.

Alex:
This is beautiful.

Jeffrey:
I'm just smelling it. I spend a lot of time smelling wines and spirits. I'm just enjoying it so much I haven't even tasted it yet, but I will right now. That is so fragrant. Delicious, right? I'm going to taste it right now. You've got to taste it.

Jonathan:
I will, but I've got two more to taste.

Jaime:
The nose is so beautiful. Yeah, what I love about this, to Alex's point, it's truly agave forward, right? And it sort of showcases that very thing that we define as tequila, that je ne sais quoi. What is that? It's vegetal, it's floral, it's this and that. And it all comes from our own agave fields.

Jeffrey:
Amazing. Wonderful. And I like the richness, the depth. in the middle of the mouth. Nice peppery spice as well, yeah. It's a more interesting reposado than many that I've tasted. I'm going to start pouring the injejos.

Alex:
Again, in my opinion this is a jewel of tequila because this is of course our original traditional recipe in the distillery and it goes through American oak barrels And in order to be called an Añejo, it needs to be in contact with wood for at least a year. So we let the tequila rest in this American oak barrels for around 14, 16 months. But then we cask finish it in Bushmills barrels. It's our Irish whiskey. It's the eldest distillery. if I remember in Europe, in the world. So you're going to be able to detect some of these Irish whiskey notes in combination with our tequila, which I believe is a lovely match.

Jeffrey:
Just in the finish now, I'm getting a chocolate character. Yes, I get butterscotch.

Jaime:
It's a combination of the two oldest tequila and whiskey distilleries, Irish whiskey distilleries, I think is interesting.

Jonathan:
And very concentrated agave character. That's really lovely. It's beautiful. Jaime, what are you, the Reposado, the Añejo, the Blanco, do you have particular serves that you enjoy cocktail wise?

Jaime:
Yeah. I mean, I think, I think for me, I think it's all about approaching it from, you know, from the standpoint of the spirit, right? Do you want to contrast compliment it? So black goes to me, you know, agave water yeast, right? It's perhaps the most out there forward in your face, you know, tequila, right? Nothing else. And for me, that is a great sort of palette to then build from. So I still go with the classics. I'm probably going to disappoint you in the answer, because for me, a margarita, a sour, something fresh, a highball, something really bright is where I tend to lean in when it comes to the blancos. Reposados, I tend to treat them a little bit like a rum. If I want to make something really nice, a little bit of spice, a hint of character, that tends to be my favorite. an añejo, I think we're far past the point of what we, the intention is to make tequilas that are equally good as a sipper as well as a cocktail. I think the añejo for me, particularly this one, you can get very playful with, right? Beyond the old fashions, beyond all that, it's anything that would carry either whiskey and or something that's a little bit more complex, you want more character. I think this one stands up to the job very well and I think as a a flexibility, if you will, to be used multiple ways.

Jeffrey:
That Añejo is gorgeous. And please don't stop me from using it in a margarita. Because I use very high-end tequilas in my margarita.

Jaime:
And we talked about that you do age expressions in your margarita. That, I wouldn't argue. I'd say absolutely. I think the price point is right. That's gorgeous. I think quality ingredients, quality tequila, you got a banger of a drink.

Jonathan:
I'd like to move on to the final expression here, the Cristalino. Exactly. Yeah.

Jaime:
Now you use high char barrels? That's right. That's the other thing, right? When we think about tequila, we think about variables. Everyone talks about what tequila is made this way, this way, and we talk steps. But it's what you do in each step that's going to yield you something different. So I'm not going to tell you better than I can, but we vary terms, even the type of finishes or chars and or toasts that we do within that barrel, because we do use first time barrels. We do. And that's going to give us clearly a clear overlay of oak and impact that perhaps a used whiskey wouldn't. So for us, every bit matters, and toast and char is just one level of action that we can take to bring out more flavor.

Jonathan:
Let's give this a try. Yeah.

Jeffrey:
So what distinguishes Cristalino from all the other tequilas?

Alex:
Well, in Cristalino, first of all, it needs to be a mature tequila, either reposado, añejo, or extra añejo. And then the The purpose of it is to strip the color out, totally, and try not to maintain all the other sensory profiles, from nose and tongue. We were the first ones to launch cristalinos to the market, so we have mastered the the process to achieve that, no? No color, but all the rest is there.

Jeffrey:
a relatively new category.

Jaime:
It is, and it's a growing one. It's very well established in Mexico, and it's starting to become more established here. I think we're starting to finally see it pop up on menus and on just back bars, which is very telling. Yeah, that's great. Because I think for us it's about a new flavor proposition, that was the intention. And I think, Alex, I think we can't, we should probably walk them through what's in it, because this one also is a blend. Please, yes. Before that charcoal filtration happens.

Alex:
Yes, this is a blend of our Reposado tequila and then it's blended with Reserva de la Familia Extrañejo. So it's got a blend of reposados and extrañejo. So based on the Mexican norm, that is why you're going to see in the label that it's reposado. You have to declare the youngest category. And then once it's blend, we go through the filtration process to achieve the cristalino that we want. But first of all, the base was selected to have that lovely blend, reposado and extrañejo.

Jeffrey:
And I've been drinking Cuervo Reserva de la Familia for many years. Many years. It's one of my favorites.

Jaime:
This has a touch of it in there. And I think, overall, the composition, for me, comes across. It's got some great depth, but it's also got some tropical notes. Something very interesting that happens through the process.

Jonathan:
It's really nice. Well, I wish we had more time so that we can keep chatting, because I love this kind of chitchat back and forth, talking shop and talking about production and process. We're so thankful that you're able to come and meet with us here at Tales of the Cocktail 2025 on our show. Alex, pleasure to meet you. Jaime, as always.

Alex:
As always. It's a great pleasure.

Jeffrey:
Thank you, Alex and Jaime. Thank you.

Alex:
Thank you both. Happy Tales. No, muchas gracias por invitarnos. Muchas gracias. Gracias.

Jonathan:
Cheers.

Alex:
Salud.

SPEAKER_13:
Tipple Time is brought to you by Rayka Vodka.

Jonathan:
All right, Jonathan Pogac here with the Cocktail Guru Show. Obviously, this is a segment we call Tipple Time. I'm joined by my friend, Casey. How are you, Casey? I'm good. So we're here at Tales of the Cocktail 2025 in the French Quarter in New Orleans at Cafe Amelie. I wanted to make a Reika pineapple espresso martini. Ooh. Does that sound good to you? Yeah. Yeah, are you intrigued? I am. OK, well, Reika vodka is from Iceland, and it is distilled using renewable energy, lava filtration. That's right. Lava rock filtration. And I'm just going to go right into it. Okay. How about that? Yeah. So you and I bartended together in New York a couple decades ago.

Casey:
A long time ago.

Jonathan:
A long, long time. But you have a local business here in New Orleans. Is that correct?

Casey:
Yes. I am a wedding photographer and portrait photographer.

Jonathan:
Where can people find you?

Casey:
kcmcmarie.com.

Jonathan:
Okay, hey, I love that. So I added the two ounces of Rekha vodka.

Casey:
Okay.

Jonathan:
Can you put a little of that espresso freshly pulled, freshly pulled, freshly pulled. Fresh brewed. Fresh, I don't know what I'm saying. Where are we? Oh, we're in the quarter, the French Quarter. And I'm going to add an ounce and a half of pineapple juice. Okay. And this will not be a particularly sweet drink. Okay. I'm not a big fan of sweet drinks. Not too sweet, as they say. But if you want to add a little bit dash of simple syrup to this drink, you most definitely can. Do you remember how to shake a cocktail?

Casey:
No, I don't know how to shake a cocktail.

Jonathan:
Please shake it awake. Don't rock it to sleep, Casey. We want to get that nice froth, that nice crema on top. Oh, a crema, crema. That's perfect. You did it. You did it really, really nicely. I can see. Look at that. Oh, you see that? You see that crema? I don't know if that camera can pick it up. Probably not. But I'm actually going to first strain it out into here. OK, and then I'm just going to pour it so that we get that crema. Mmm. Look at that. Doesn't that look beautiful? Yes, it does. That is a beautiful looking cocktail. Let me try to get that right this so that you can see it on camera. Yes. Okay. Shall we take it here, please? Yes. You do the honors. Yes, she's smelling it. Okay. Would you put a little simple syrup in it for your taste?

Casey:
It depends on the day.

Jonathan:
Okay.

Casey:
Yeah.

Jonathan:
I like it. I definitely taste the pineapple. The Reika comes through, that espresso. Perfectly balanced cocktail, if I do say so. Yeah, nice work. Thank you so much, Casey. And thank you all.

SPEAKER_13:
Tipple Time has been brought to you by Reika Vodka.

Jonathan:
There are, of course, those cultural icons who remind us that all beverages can be fun, irreverent, and part of our everyday lives. That's why we were especially excited to sit down with Cheech and Chong after one of their parties at Tails. We talked about their new line of THC beverages, High and Dry, and of course, their latest film called Cheech and Chong's Last Movie, which can now be seen on Amazon Prime. We are here with some very special icons.

Chong:
My mind is blown. He's Mexican.

Jonathan:
Oh, OK. All right. What's up? So we got Cheech and Chong, everybody, here on the Cocktail Guru Show, which is this is a year plus in the making. And we're so thankful to be able to share some drinkies with you. We're going to pop open a joint and share a joint together. You cool with that?

Chong:
We've never done that before. You did it first.

Jeffrey:
I've been imbibing in the drinkies, and that they are absolutely delicious. They're out there. High and dry, Cheech and Chong, high and dry, fantastic. And I don't think we have to introduce this comedic duo here, because everybody looking at this video knows exactly who they are. After all these years.

Cheech:
After all these beers.

Jeffrey:
After all these beers, we now know. So this has been oh, oh, wow. I started already.

Chong:
He's like a dad.

Jonathan:
What's that smell? Yeah, what is that? He says he hasn't smoked since 1969. 1969 was my first and last joint. Can you remember that?

Jeffrey:
Really? Yes, really. First and last.

Jonathan:
Cutting edge, boy. Before we do anything else, but I just want to ask you, Tommy, what was the, the two of you guys, what was the inspiration behind these beverages?

Chong:
Oh, the beverages? Yeah. Oh, we've got people. We were selling high-end, not high-end dry, but gummies. And Brooke and her husband. Yeah. Brandon. Brandon. Sorry, I've been smoking all day. They come up with this idea. put it to them. I was trying to get them to do kombucha, but instead they come up with high and dry, which is even better, you know, because it's cannabis infused, you know. And I, I don't know, I just, thinking about it, you know, because it's, the idea of getting cannabis in liquid is very exciting to me, you know.

Jonathan:
Yeah. It's very exciting to everybody and that you guys are here at Tales of the Cocktail is like crazy, man. Right? It defies logic. It defies logic. Why does it defy logic? Definition of crazy. Yeah. How is that? I mean, what kind of a milestone is this for the industry?

Cheech:
It's good. I mean, we're going to You know, try to fuse the two big bodies of mass consumption so we can be together to fight our real enemy, online gambling.

Jonathan:
That's good. I know, that's what it is. Well, Tommy needs some. Tommy hasn't gotten any yet.

Cheech:
He learned that from Snoop Dogg. No, I had one.

Jonathan:
I'll take that. Wait. Oh, Jesus. Did you? I know. My next dream, this is one of my dreams, smoking with you guys.

Chong:
Anybody else want to put their lips on it?

Jonathan:
Anybody? No. So smoking with Snoop Dogg, which I assume you guys have done before. Well, Snoop Dogg.

Cheech:
You hand him a joint, and that's the last say goodbye. It's like a joint to Mars. It's never coming back, you know. So he's off in another world. He's off in another world, and he ain't looking back.

Jonathan:
I just want to briefly mention the flavors that you got here of your beverages, right? So you got raspberry highball. You got black tea and lemon? We do.

Jonathan:
The Tommy Palmer.

Jonathan:
Yeah, the Tommy Palmer. The Tommy Palmer. You got black tea and peach?

Jonathan:
Cheech's Peaches.

Jonathan:
Cheech's Peaches. That's it. And you got the Magic Mule. That's what I'm drinking now. What do you got?

Chong:
Cheech's Peaches.

Jonathan:
Okay. What should I have? Magic Mule. Oh, that's good. I have questions. Number one, why doesn't anyone make stoner movies anymore?

Chong:
Because they're not smart enough to?

Jeffrey:
Well, I think it's because all the stoner movies have already been done by YouTube.

Chong:
What really happened is that when Up In Smoke came out, the stoners said, Forget it. Yeah, they own it. This serves walk away walk away. I'm cheech Although what's his name? Seth Rogan, oh Man, did he so good right? Did he take Cheech and Chong go all the way with it normalizing it?

Jonathan:
Oh

Chong:
I mean, his, that show, his now, big hit.

Jonathan:
Oh, the studio?

Chong:
Yeah.

Jonathan:
That's a good show. Oh, it's a huge hit.

Chong:
That's a funny show.

Jonathan:
It's the funniest.

Chong:
And all the top shows were Cheech and Chong inspired, by the way. Oh, yeah, 100%. Two and a Half Men? Yeah. Chuck Lorre? Yeah. Big Cheech and Chong fan. Oh my gosh. When I was on Dharma and Grave, you know, it was one of his first shows. He called me up to be on his show personally, and he really didn't have a part for me, but they wrote one in there, you know, and we had a talk and he was telling me how influential we were with the whole of movies, records, everything. Do you think I can't keep talking? No, you can. I have a question of my own.

Jeffrey:
Hold on. An hour and 59 left. I want to know about Cheech and Chong, the last movie.

Cheech:
Oh, I don't know.

Jeffrey:
I'm not in that, so I don't know anything about it. It looked to me, I saw some trailers for it, and it looked like a semi-documentary.

Cheech:
Yeah, it is. It's a semi-documentary. That's a good way to put it. It really is a documentary, but it has fictionalized parts in it and fantastic sequence parts, and it's interesting. Is this a documentary or a movie? I don't know, man. Am I driving okay?

Jeffrey:
The first rock and roll comedians. No doubt about it. Success might spoil them. You drive me nuts!

Chong:
But he's my best friend. Why don't we just let all that stuff go? Look how far we've come. Got a joint?

Jonathan:
Wait, I got a quick question. I want to start with Cheech. Cheech, you ready? Yes, sir. I assume this is a yes. Stop the clock. I assume this is a yes, but do you guys still ever blaze together one-on-one and shoot the shit? Do you guys do that on a regular basis? All the time.

Chong:
Who asked that dumb question?

Cheech:
My dumb friend, John. You're intruding in my time now. I get, what, seven seconds now? Seven seconds. You're intruding in my time. Okay, I answer the question, you're on the clock again.

Jonathan:
No, that's the last question, but I'll take a little bit of that, please. Hold on, hold on, hold on. I got to start. I got to take over here. OK. Start the clock. You ready? OK. For you, Cheech, what's the future hold for THC beverages?

Cheech:
I think they're going to merge. They're going to have a mezzo baby, which we are right now. And then it's going to be an accepted part of the industry. I was like, it's foolish to, you know, I don't believe in the rising tide.

Jeffrey:
No, it's definitely more than an up-and-coming drink. It was up-and-coming a few years ago, but now THC beverages have arrived. They have arrived.

Cheech:
It's just, you know, the liquor industry, they're kind of getting the picture now, and they've stopped being resentful. So we've got to team up to take on the online gamblers, man. That's the eating of our profits.

Chong:
A lot of the liquor industries are switching over to our drink. That's the whole point. That's the same as up in smoke. We kind of legalized weed. And now look at it. It's a medicine. They found out it's a medicine.

Jonathan:
Yeah, absolutely. Well, we really want to thank you guys for taking the time. Appreciate it. I'm not finished yet. Oh, man. He's not done yet. Unfortunately, we have. I was told to wrap.

Jeffrey:
Keep rolling. He wants to keep rolling. But Cheech, it's been wonderful. Squishing you and sitting next to you.

Cheech:
Dad's okay. I hear you want to hold on to that.

Jonathan:
I'm going to keep that. Get him more stone? Alright, thank you. Thank you. Cheers to you guys. Appreciate you. Love you. Like, love you. Love you.

Cheech:
Alright, thank you very much.

Jonathan:
Who are you?

Cheech:
Appreciate your time. Is there a parole officer? Be nice to him.

Jonathan:
Who's this guy?

Jeffrey:
This week has been pretty insane this has been a hectic exhausting Week full of fun and adventure.

Jonathan:
Yes. Thank you all for for watching our season 4 finale We'll be back for season 5 this fall dad on behalf of you everyone out there all of our brand partners our guests our and Cafe Amelie, of course, and our producer, Cary Moynihan. Thank you.

Jeffrey:
From this Napoleonic bed, all we can say to all of you is merci beaucoup. Cheers. Cheers.

Announcer:
That's a wrap. If you enjoy what we do, please rate, review, and subscribe to the show and our newsletter. To watch or listen to today's episode, or to see the show notes, visit thecocktailgurushow.com. You can also follow us on Facebook, YouTube, X, Instagram, or TikTok. The Cocktail Guru Show is produced by First Real Entertainment and is available via YouTube, Spotify, Zencastr, Apple, Amazon, eatsdrinkstv.com, Galaxy Global on Comcast, and wherever you enjoy your favorite shows.