Icons of Wine with Erica Crawford (TCGS S5 E4)

01:14.45

jeffrey

I am so pleased to begin this new series within the Cocktail Guru podcast, Icons of Wine. with the legendary co-founder and vintner Erica Crawford from New Zealand.

01:28.22

jeffrey

Along with her husband, Kim, she launched the Kim Crawford brand in 1996 and sold it in 2003.

01:32.73

erica crawford

to

01:37.39

jeffrey

Since that time, Erica and Kim have been producing outstanding and innovative wines under the Love Block label. Love Block is located in Marlborough, ah including among her wines are Sauvignon Blanc, Pinot Noir, Pinot Gris, Riesling and Gewürztraminer,

01:58.58

jeffrey

oh which were launched under the Love Block label in 2014. This interview is particularly relevant to my life as Sauvignon and Blanc was the first wine that I tasted 52 years ago in Paris with my mentor, Steven Spurrier.

02:18.62

jeffrey

the man who was responsible for the judgment of Paris, the um event that unlocked the potential of California wine and made it a household name. it hu it It allowed California to explode just because of that one tasting.

02:36.46

jeffrey

The second reason is deeply personal. Second reason is this is a deeply personal interview because my work representing the wine producers of Alsace was something I did for 16 years, a job that allowed me to taste some fabulous wines made from Riesling, Pinot Gris, Gewürztraminer, and Pinot Noir. And lastly, i had the privilege of representing new zealand a New Zealand winery for about six years during my career.

03:12.28

jeffrey

So i was able to get to New Zealand, visit the the country and also visit a number of different wineries while I was there. So here we are talking to the legendary Erica Crawford, who will explain what Love Block wines are all about.

03:30.36

jeffrey

And we'll get into some details about the different grape varieties that I have mentioned. And there is a question i would like to answer between the two of us. is Riesling, as I believe, is Riesling one of the two greatest white wine grape varieties in the world?

03:49.91

erica crawford

certainly is for me. I think it's well known that it's probably the top of my list as it is for most other wine people. and And I think we really make it for ourselves. it Unfortunately, it's never really caught on in popularity the way we've been saying it would for the last 20 years. But yeah, it's the it's the king of grapes.

04:10.98

jeffrey

Yes. um I agree. And I was making a list of grape varieties that I tend to love. And Pinot Gris is definitely on that list. But so is Sauvignon Blanc.

04:23.89

jeffrey

Sauvignon Blanc and Riesling being two grapes that I think

04:23.96

erica crawford

Mm-hmm.

04:29.33

jeffrey

um are so wonderful because they are inherently complex. The flavors come from within the grapes themselves, and they don't need extraneous material to make them taste good.

04:44.56

jeffrey

that That's exactly why I appreciate those two grape varieties.

04:48.40

erica crawford

Yes, and and I think with with' in in the with the Love Bluff Project and our whole approach to organics, you know, we've eliminated more and more and more and sort of really rely on the quality and the flavours of the terroir that that grape gives, because there's not much helping it along and making it look big or pretty.

05:06.32

jeffrey

Right.

06:12.44

Jeffrey and talking about these grape varieties makes me very thirsty. So I almost forgot that I have this bottle chilling in the refrigerator of Love Block Sauvignon Blanc.

06:26.97

erica crawford

Perfect for Sunday morning.

06:26.98

jeffrey

So i'm it is perfect any time, Sunday morning, any weather, any season, any food, and I'm going to pour

06:42.44

jeffrey

just like that and more importantly I'm going to taste it I'm not I am for me

06:50.80

erica crawford

You're not on camera right now, um Jiffy. No.

06:58.36

erica crawford

Okay, maybe you just froze. I'm sorry.

07:00.56

jeffrey

i

07:00.72

erica crawford

Apologies, you'll have to edit this out.

07:02.06

jeffrey

i sorry I can see myself maybe it had something to do with my leaving that's probably why can you see me you can't see me now

07:06.02

erica crawford

Okay, okay, okay.

07:12.65

erica crawford

that It doesn't matter. I can hear you perfectly well.

07:20.45

jeffrey

Mmm. Mmm.

07:25.12

jeffrey

This is so good. and I've been tasting Sauvignon Blanc um so for several, couple of years now. And each time it's just absolutely fabulous.

07:36.87

jeffrey

And I'm getting here.

07:38.05

erica crawford

yeah I think one of the things with, especially new Zealand Sauvignon Blanc, is that, gee, people really want to drink it fresh and fresh off the bottling line.

07:48.60

jeffrey

Mmm.

07:49.50

erica crawford

but But, you know, it's a noble grape and it needs time to develop and show and show all those beautiful characters that's in there. And it takes time in the bottle, you know.

08:00.36

erica crawford

So we're always a bit later with them with releasing releasing the wine, as you can see.

08:06.22

jeffrey

Exactly. And it's very different from other Sauvignon Blancs, very different from other New Zealand Sauvignon Blancs, but we can especially differentiate it between differentiate between this Sauvignon Blanc and others produced in areas like the Loire Valley or California.

08:24.42

jeffrey

This is quite different in style.

08:24.73

erica crawford

Yes. Yeah, again, it's and it's the it's organic management, both in the vineyard and the winery, that help us get to the style, you know, because with organics, obviously in the vineyard, we manage it in a specific way, no agrochemicals, no chemical fertilizer, and a whole bunch of other things. So everything is managed biologically.

08:46.82

erica crawford

And thus, the vines have to compete with weeds and cover crops for water and nutrients. And and so their roots go to a different place to to get these things.

08:58.45

erica crawford

And that also gives us a canopy that's a little bit more open ah because we don't put the fertilizer on. So for classic Marbeau Sauvignon Blanc, you require this big green canopy that shades the clusters.

09:11.33

erica crawford

And we don't do that. So we really seek to pull back the pyrazines and the green flavors because there's so much of it available and in the grapes in New Zealand. And then in the winery, of course,

09:23.47

erica crawford

There's a myriad of things that we cannot use. So our list of additives, if you like, um is very, very small. And one of those things is sulfites and sulfur. So for organic wine, you've got to stay below 100 parts per million. In other words, less than 100 milligrams per liter.

09:45.48

erica crawford

And typically, Loughblocks, it's about 70, 75-ish. Whereas ordinarily, with two additions of first sulphur and then sulphites for Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc, it sits at about hundred and between 130 and 160, around about.

10:00.24

jeffrey

Thank you.

10:02.09

erica crawford

And I believe that it's sulphites that does such a lot for that zippy, and you know and zippy joyful, acidic style of Marlborough Sauvignon Blanc because it just grabs it and takes it through the life of the With your taste, the softness he your taste of softness And that is that in my firm belief is caused by a lower sulfites.

10:26.03

jeffrey

Yeah, I'm tasting fruit and I'm tasting a soft quality, much more so than in other Sauvignon Blancs.

10:31.34

erica crawford

Yeah.

10:32.62

jeffrey

There's less of that stony, earthy, flinty character that that I find so often in Sauvignon Blanc.

10:37.78

erica crawford

Yeah.

10:40.52

erica crawford

This you should I'm hoping today you tasting a bit of um you're tasting some peach as well.

10:45.89

jeffrey

Mm-hmm. Oh, yes.

10:47.58

erica crawford

Because our little area our immediate tiny little area and has got that flavor profile. and And, you know, we're surrounded by big companies. And unfortunately, none of them use that as a single vineyard or a single block or a single release. And so they're missing out on this beautiful peachy flavor.

11:07.00

jeffrey

Absolutely. And I did taste a couple of days ago when we were together.

11:10.60

erica crawford

Correct. Correct. Yeah.

11:11.53

jeffrey

pasting i definitely tasted the peach and it's coming through now as well.

11:12.45

erica crawford

Yeah, yeah.

11:15.01

jeffrey

And you have another Sauvignon Blanc called TEE.

11:20.11

erica crawford

Correct.

11:21.15

jeffrey

And you use a green tea tannins as a sort of preservative for that one, do you not?

11:30.65

erica crawford

Yeah, so we've just spoken about the role of sulfites and sulfur and what it does to the flavor profile, and that is softer. And so our next question was really so if reduced sulphides does this to the wine, the softness, what will happen if we don't add any sulphides at all?

11:51.14

erica crawford

We know it will um will likely oxidise and no two bottles will likely ah will not be the same. So there's been a product available from one of our winery suppliers that's um used for bottretised grapes.

12:10.13

erica crawford

And the you know when grapes botrytize where they rot, they activate enzymes called the lacase enzymes. And this product blocks that through antioxidant activity. So we figured if that happens at that point, and if we add it every single time, the wine's exposed to oxygen in the winemaking process, it should protect the wine from oxidation.

12:35.48

erica crawford

So we had our first little trial in 2018 and blow me over, it's worked. And I think we've perfected the process now.

12:41.96

jeffrey

Fantastic. And um based on my tastings with you, I understand that for you, texture is extremely important in a wine.

12:50.73

erica crawford

Yes. Texture, you know, through this lack of lower sulfite levels, you'll note that the aroma, especially Sauvignon Blanc, doesn't jump out of the glass.

13:02.05

erica crawford

and um and And we get more of a texture, but we also, in the winery, work on that quite a lot. So a portion of the Sauvignon Blanc grapes are hand-picked, and then they're fermented in these big concrete eggs, clay amphora and neutral oak.

13:19.02

erica crawford

So they tend to ferment on their wild ferment and they take their time with their own process. And even though these things look the same, the same shape, we've got 12 of these things, every egg tastes different. It's quite amazing.

13:36.80

erica crawford

And then the rest is ah machine harvested and goes into stainless steel, sort of the traditional way to make Marlboro Sauvignon Blanc. where we take a small portion of that and put it through melolactic. So what these things do is to give you more texture.

13:53.65

erica crawford

And I think you can really taste it in that wine. You know, but you you sort of almost get that solid ferment idea.

14:02.26

jeffrey

it's It's gaining in complex complexity as it aerates a little bit. And I firmly believe that white wines need aeration just as red wines do.

14:11.68

erica crawford

Now, I totally agree with you on that. And, you know, if you look at the vintage of that, that's 23.

14:19.38

erica crawford

And yeah, and it's not oxidized at all.

14:19.79

jeffrey

Yes.

14:22.07

erica crawford

The other day in Australia, we tasted the 20 vintage and it just got so complex.

14:22.81

jeffrey

Nope.

14:26.19

erica crawford

So I'm a big, big proponent of um some bottle time, especially for Sauvignon Blanc, you know, it's a noble grape. Not only do we need to give it time to develop its own flavors or, you know, show its best side, we also, i think,

14:41.99

erica crawford

there's a notion that people believe that Sauvignon Blanc looks like this, Sauvignon Blanc from New Zealand, that it should be big, that it should be, um you know, a zippy, crackling, popping and aroma, and then, ah you know, ah a pronounced

14:56.95

jeffrey

Yes.

14:58.46

erica crawford

and and

14:59.20

jeffrey

In your face. Right.

15:00.14

erica crawford

mouthfeel. Yeah, but, you know, as ah as I repeatedly say,

15:01.48

jeffrey

right

15:05.66

erica crawford

Sauvignon Blanc is one of the Nogu grapes and there's so many sides to it. So I hope that with this tea Sauvignon Blanc, we can show one side of it where the flavors are more ripe mandarin, cumin seed, um some beautiful peach, um and and of course, a little bit of herbs.

15:23.66

erica crawford

and and and And then again, also you tasted the method tradition now Sauvignon Blanc that we made. And again, that's showing a completely different side of Sauvignon Blanc where it it it was the second ferment and then on lease for two years.

15:39.16

erica crawford

So you get a lovely flavour development. And because the flavours are bit bolder, it's a nice structure in the end. I don't know what you thought of that wine when we tasted it the other day.

15:49.94

jeffrey

Oh, I thought it was lovely. Beautiful. And you also make a sparkling wine with Sauvignon.

15:57.68

erica crawford

that's yeah That's the one I'm talking talking about.

15:59.28

jeffrey

Yeah, that's ah that that was absolutely delicious.

15:59.83

erica crawford

So that

16:02.52

erica crawford

Yeah, so that's made in the style that champagne is made in.

16:03.21

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

16:06.63

erica crawford

So two fermentations. So the first one is picked at um lower bricks. In other words, it's like a green. And then it ferments to zero sugar. And then we take it into the second ferment where we add a liqueur and it sits thin and then ferments again. And as the yeast disintegrates, it forms the lease and that gives us a lovely character.

16:29.97

erica crawford

um that you get on champagne and and and wines that are made in this fashion.

16:35.47

jeffrey

And your wine

16:35.52

erica crawford

It certainly takes time and patience. Hmm.

16:40.64

jeffrey

and your wines are vegan friendly, correct?

16:43.81

erica crawford

correct

16:44.90

jeffrey

Organic. And in some cases, from what I can see, biodynamic.

16:51.03

erica crawford

ah Firstly, let's address biodynamics.

16:53.85

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

16:53.86

erica crawford

Whilst we use quite a few of the principles, and more and more so, we're not certified for that.

17:01.13

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

17:01.15

erica crawford

um

17:01.53

jeffrey

Okay.

17:01.97

erica crawford

it you know We use it in the vineyard particularly, and there's a lot of stuff that we look at as a farm, not only as a vineyard, we look at it as a biological um whole system, as opposed to just a vineyard.

17:17.89

erica crawford

So there's a whole lot of activities going on at each of the vineyards, not just growing grapes. And for instance, last week, we ah did the the first spray of the season, and that was preparation 500. And the team did that.

17:33.06

erica crawford

And the first spray went on. So that's when we take the cow horn that was buried for six months, and make what we call a tea from that, and that gets sprayed on the vines.

17:42.47

jeffrey

Yes, matt that's where the biodynamic element comes into play.

17:42.62

erica crawford

Yeah.

17:47.54

erica crawford

Absolutely, yes.

17:49.13

jeffrey

Yes. um And you do that for some of all of your wines or some of them?

17:54.59

erica crawford

No, it's just is on the vineyards. So again, as I say, it's not certified and we don't do absolutely everything, but we increasingly using more and more of the biodynamic principles to apply to to the vineyards.

17:59.38

jeffrey

Yeah.

18:09.54

erica crawford

um Our main focus, of course, is organics in the vineyard.

18:12.50

jeffrey

Yeah.

18:13.16

erica crawford

And um the difficulty with organics is different countries have different certification systems. So you're certified for the vineyards, the wine, the wine and then the easiest part the export system. So for instance, to get full certification for the US, you cannot add any sulfites or any additives.

18:34.22

erica crawford

And unfortunately, they view the tannin that we use for the with a tea as as as not organic in anyway.

18:40.78

jeffrey

Yeah, there's an additive.

18:43.99

erica crawford

so But you'll see on the bottles made with organically grown grapes.

18:49.14

erica crawford

Hopefully it's there. Sometimes we forget to

18:53.06

jeffrey

Now, i don't want to forget this other wine that I have sitting here in my glass, which I have been aerating for a while now. and that's the pinot noir from central otaga otago otago

19:08.97

erica crawford

yeah that's a that that was a real interesting little project and this is something that's really close to kim's heart um so it's the first time we could plant colognes according to flavor profile that we wish to have so you'll i don't know what you're tasting today maybe you can describe it for us but some of the clones are planted to give you more floral notes and some of the lighter berries like raspberry and those little red ones.

19:36.02

erica crawford

And then there's clone 115, which gives you strawberries and things. And then there's clone five, which gives you the big crackling black cherry and plum and so forth.

19:47.06

jeffrey

and

19:48.40

erica crawford

And then New Zealand's able clone, which gives us nice structure. And I think you've got 21 tasting there, aren't you?

19:55.89

jeffrey

Yes, that's right.

19:55.99

erica crawford

So you'll note, I don't know if you can get it today, but um I really picked up the other day, you could pick the pick up the the whole bunch flavors.

20:05.61

jeffrey

Oh, yeah, very definitely. Yes, definitely.

20:07.08

erica crawford

Yeah, so so a small portion of that was whole bunch picked and and and macerated like that.

20:15.18

jeffrey

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I was going to use a term which makes me think of whole bunch grapes, and that's stem-like quality, stem character.

20:27.33

erica crawford

Correct. Correct. Yeah. Yeah.

20:29.26

jeffrey

and I'm definitely keeping that.

20:29.75

erica crawford

It's not a green, it's not a green flavour.

20:31.88

jeffrey

No, it's not.

20:33.13

erica crawford

it's It's just a um

20:36.63

erica crawford

you know, it's almost if you, for those people who live in places where you can, this sort of big tall grass, pull it out of a sheath and then chew on the bottom, it's almost that of thats sort of structure that you get.

20:46.56

jeffrey

Yes.

20:50.61

jeffrey

Because at the same time, I'm getting that lovely berry fruit, too. I'm getting a combination of lighter berry fruit, but also something more in-depth, something more more more concentrated in character.

21:00.80

erica crawford

yeah Yeah, that'll probably pomade with its deeper black flavours of black cherry, as I said, and plums and and so on.

21:07.37

jeffrey

Hmm.

21:12.60

erica crawford

And you know, it's grown in the area, Central Otago is the biggest area for stone fruit in New Zealand. So well known for apricots, peaches, and so on.

21:18.48

jeffrey

ah huh.

21:24.08

erica crawford

so And of course, the plums. So it's quite nice to be able to taste those two next to each other.

21:30.35

jeffrey

And it's a dramatically beautiful area as well.

21:34.08

erica crawford

Absolutely, yes.

21:35.27

jeffrey

Right. Yeah.

21:35.92

erica crawford

is Yes, yes. And, you know, it's it's quite interesting. We really owe our Pinot Noir success to an Australian viticulturist who reached and he passed away. His name was Richard Smart.

21:47.31

erica crawford

And for his PhD, yeah, for his PhD thesis, he mapped the soils of Australia and New Zealand to find the perfect soils for Pinot Noir.

21:47.88

jeffrey

Oh, yeah. yeah

21:56.59

erica crawford

And it was Central Otago and Tasmania.

22:01.41

jeffrey

Yes.

22:01.60

erica crawford

And so, yeah, so away we went. And um I think he's an honorary Kiwi, Richard Smart.

22:09.12

jeffrey

Yes, I had the pleasure of meeting him one many, many years ago.

22:11.12

erica crawford

Yes.

22:13.39

jeffrey

Yes. um

22:17.62

jeffrey

Also, somewhat up the vineyard that you use ah for the Pinot Noir is called Someone's Darling. Is that correct?

22:26.54

erica crawford

that's That's right, yeah. so

22:27.70

jeffrey

No.

22:28.31

erica crawford

So this time around, unlike with Kim Crawford, we own all the vineyards that we use.

22:33.32

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

22:33.71

erica crawford

And there's some really good reason for that. Firstly, because we farm organically. So you've really got to be precise in the viticulture and the growing. Because if you add something as you're not supposed to, you lose certification for four years.

22:47.79

erica crawford

And that's that's quite a bugger.

22:49.79

jeffrey

Oh, yeah.

22:50.32

erica crawford

And also...

22:51.42

jeffrey

Sure.

22:51.97

erica crawford

and and and also um you know, you use the same grapes every year. So you can really see the development of vine age. And we're starting to see that particularly with Pinot Gris.

23:05.01

erica crawford

You just get a layer of balance in the palate that you don't see, you know, that you don't see um in younger vines. and And then, of course, and seasonal variation.

23:18.50

erica crawford

If you use the same grapes all the time, you really notice that.

23:23.77

jeffrey

I just love Pinot Gris, as said in the interview.

23:26.05

erica crawford

I know you do. it's It's my, I think for me, it's ah it's ah it's a grape that gives me such joy.

23:27.64

jeffrey

Yeah.

23:32.30

erica crawford

You know, I don't necessarily want to analyze every glass of wine I drink.

23:33.43

jeffrey

yeah

23:37.70

erica crawford

And it's just so nice to just sit back and pour that glass of wine. And when you're so tired and it's Pinot Gris for me.

23:47.09

jeffrey

but My favorite bottlings from Alsace are just, I can only describe them as hedonistically pleasurable. They're just, know, good.

23:54.90

erica crawford

That's a very good, it's a very good phrase and I'm definitely going to steal that.

23:58.78

jeffrey

You may, you may. um Yeah, it's ah it's just, again, one of the, to me, one of the great grape varieties in the world. Along with Viognier.

24:10.60

jeffrey

Viognier is another favorite.

24:12.29

erica crawford

Yeah, Viognia is something we tried to plant in Marlborough, but it's just didn't ripen for us in our cooler vineyards.

24:15.12

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

24:19.32

erica crawford

You know, we are in a cooler valley and so we really struggle to ripen that. So that's gone.

24:26.94

jeffrey

um And Riesling, we didn't really talk too much about that, but I'd like to touch upon Riesling a little bit. I wish I had one here from Love Block, but I could not find it.

24:39.26

jeffrey

So I was fortunate enough to be able to get the Sauvignon Blanc and the Pinot Noir. But Riesling is, again, one of the world's great grape varieties and produces incredibly diverse styles of wine and also a great deal of complexity.

24:55.29

jeffrey

when it's identified at its best.

24:56.97

erica crawford

Yeah, incredibly diverse. And it really shows its place, you know, for for us, the Riesling grows at altitude in soils that no one had planted grapes in before they're difficult soils, quite, quite a lot of clay.

25:11.31

erica crawford

But what it does show us from that particular site at elevation is beautiful minerality. And um and ah i've I've got a super soft spot for Marlborough Riesling because you know, we we were just I was discussing it with someone the other day, like, we can age wine for so long because we have acid.

25:31.63

jeffrey

Mm-hmm. Yes.

25:32.56

erica crawford

And and Riesling from there, probably best in bottle for about five or six years. And it does need a little bit of residual sugar because we have so much acid.

25:42.71

jeffrey

Mm-hmm.

25:43.01

erica crawford

And the flavors from there just beautifully citrus fruity, you know, lemon limey, and and then this minerality, You do require a little bit of residual sugar, still technically dry.

25:56.14

erica crawford

um Otherwise it needs to be in the bottle for about 15 years before it becomes successful. Yeah.

26:00.36

jeffrey

Exactly, exactly. And my favorite Rieslings happen to be sweeter bottlings of Riesling in general, even you know you do yeah at the Auslase and Berenauslase and Trockenberenauslase levels of German Riesling.

26:07.04

erica crawford

Yes, yes, yes.

26:16.91

jeffrey

um But also those produced in Alsace, which I'm very familiar with. When I first started working ah for Alsace, they were absolutely bone dry wines.

26:27.81

erica crawford

Yes.

26:28.25

jeffrey

And they were very interesting and they worked very well with food. As time went on, they became, I found, a little softer with a little more residual sugar.

26:37.09

erica crawford

But it does take does take years. And we've still got some of them.

26:40.76

jeffrey

Yeah. Oh, yes.

26:41.99

erica crawford

but We've got some in the library. um but but so yeah, so for us there's about 5.4 milligrams per liter of residual sugar, where you stop the fermentation, just to make it a bit more accessible

26:57.94

jeffrey

Yeah, that you have to.

26:59.46

erica crawford

to balance the acid.

26:59.77

jeffrey

You really

27:00.46

erica crawford

Correct.

27:01.76

jeffrey

And my my I have mentors in different categories of wine, and my Riesling mentor was a fellow named Peter Sechel, who um recently passed away, unfortunately.

27:14.19

jeffrey

um what

27:14.36

erica crawford

I'm sorry about that. Great.

27:15.68

jeffrey

yeah One more topic that I wanted to mention briefly, we only have ah a few minutes left, um was the screw cap, which you use, of course, regularly. um

27:26.08

erica crawford

right

27:26.70

jeffrey

I have been drinking lots of wines that are under screw cap, ah for a long time, and they seemed to work extremely well. And they also allow me to put, once I open the bottle, put the capsule back and preserve the wine for a longer period of time than would occur with a cork.

27:44.29

erica crawford

Okay.

27:47.62

jeffrey

um But ah my my question has always been, and I don't think it's resolvable at this stage, is for long-term aging, not for white wine, but more for red wines.

28:02.95

jeffrey

Do screw caps work well? Do we know whether they work well yet for long-term red wine aging? I'm not talking about the wine red wines that are meant to be drunk young, but wines that are meant to be put away for a number of years.

28:14.36

erica crawford

Yeah.

28:18.49

erica crawford

Yeah, so we have been using screwcaps for about 20, 24 years now. In fact, the first wine that went under screwcap in New Zealand, was bottled under screwcap, was Kim Crawford Riesling.

28:32.83

erica crawford

and And, you know, we we have personally not put red wines away and not made those complexity of red wines yet, because the vineyards are too young. and that can age that long. But I can just quote Chester yeah know from Darenburg.

28:48.88

erica crawford

And he says that it ages, but it's like aging in the refrigerator. So you'll probably, those very complex reds, you'll probably have to put away for twice as long.

28:59.73

jeffrey

um Interesting, because I've been waiting for results from Bordeaux. I know the Bordeaux have been experimenting for for many years, and I really haven't heard much in the way of definitive answers as to whether their wines, some of the great Bordeaux Chateaus, age well under screw cap or not.

29:07.13

erica crawford

All right, yeah.

29:20.69

erica crawford

Yeah, I mean, it the the white question of white wines is is quite definitive. And, you know, there was a study done in Australia in the 70s, which they looked at it already.

29:25.28

jeffrey

No. Yeah.

29:30.40

erica crawford

ah But yeah, it's those long longevity and red wines and what that does to it that um that we still don't know, because we have to wait until it's been under screw cup for that long.

29:40.85

jeffrey

Right, right.

29:41.67

erica crawford

Yeah.

29:43.49

jeffrey

Well, Erica Crawford, thank you very, very much for this lively discussion and very informative discussion. I always learn a great deal. I've learned a lot listening to you and I learn a great deal speaking to you in person as well and attending your seminars because you do some fantastic seminars on the subject of Sauvignon Blanc and Pinot Noir and Pinot Gris and Riesling as well.

30:07.85

jeffrey

So I hope to attend one of those. again one day on your next trip to New York perhaps. But in the meantime, Godspeed, safe travels, and thank you very, very much for taking the time to participate in our first episode of Icons of Wine.

30:27.28

jeffrey

Thank you, Eric.

30:28.69

erica crawford

Thank you very much for having me and um have a good rest of 25. Thank you.

30:34.38

jeffrey

You as well. Thank you.

30:36.01

erica crawford

thank you